Yes, some of them are with the establishment, obviously. If they weren't with the establishment at least partically, they wouldn't be here and successful. The real dissidents are behind bars.
<<"You’re also not going to generally find pessimists writing mainly on the level of politics because it’s too grim to write regularly “the dissident right is likely to continue to lose” without attaching metaphysical meaning to it.">>
This is spot on. The value of clownworld's insanity is it helps people overcome their reluctance to consider heterodox perspectives with an open mind and ignore their fear of social censure. When everything is going smoothly and you're comfortable and your side is winning and life is on a continual upwards trajectory, it's so much easier to just go with the flow and accept the conventional narrative, rather than heed that disquieting inner doubt. And once you start questioning things, the cycle feeds itself: after you recognize all the games are ultimately bullshit, you become less willing to "pretend" when others demand that you play them, and since we live in a memetic society where people and institutions reward performing the prescribed rituals and chanting the prescribed slogans, if you are unwilling to play along with these stupid games, it makes any kind of mainstream political success extremely difficult (if not impossible). And that leads to even more willingness to call "bullshit" on the conventional narratives, because you have such little hope of "winning" the games people play by pretending.
I am not particularly optimistic about empire or modern society, but I am very optimistic about the ability of individuals to improve their mental, physical and spiritual strength. If enough individuals make powerful change in themselves, society will follow. At the very least those who make such change can be there to assist and rebuild, as the collapse of the GAE empire progresses.
I think we're fucked, but not completely fucked, and requires some overture of personal sacrifice to get unfucked. And talking politics is at best an amusing pass time, but not worth hours of writing and editing.
Interesting observation on points #6 and #7, which leads to the idea that the dissident audience has a focus gauged around political optimism. Good graph and summary points 😹
Being an averagely narcissistic cognitive dissident, I am curious where I'd end up on this chart, if anywhere. Not regarding the optimistic-pessimist pole, since that's easy (my only qualification for optimism in this chart being that I still write articles at SS).
My interest and focus is metaphysical-psychological but the raw material I use is socio-political. But the line between "right" & "left" is a much more moving one and, surely, it doesn't really apply when it come to meta-psychological work? (Tho a political hammer might still try and nail down right-wing vs left-wing metaphysics.)
Cognitive dissidence entails a relentless Neti neti dismissal of every conclusion we (briefly) reach, on the way to Reality, big R, which obviously transcends all categories of positive or negative (the most fundamental dyad), and thus requires a constant holding of opposing possibilities in mind at the same time without letting either one capture us.
For the record, my form of informed "pessimism" (paranoid realism) doesn't (necessarily) include seeing the realm of Matter as fundamentally flawed, but the psychosocial lens of humancentric identities that we are currently using to evaluate the realm of Matter with, yeah, for sure, it is SNAFUBAR all down the line.
As I ended Big Mother with, true hope comes from accepting there is no hope. And seeing what comes through us then. Always a surprise! (more substack essays, eg).
Hi Jasun, great comment, thank you. I very much agree that higher level reality involves synergies of opposite beliefs and that "Cognitive dissidence entails a relentless Neti neti dismissal of every conclusion we (briefly) reach, on the way to Reality, big R, which obviously transcends all categories of positive or negative." The dissident right is of particular interest to me at this moment because it is attacking and deconstructing "every conclusions [society] reaches" with respect to democracy, secularism, history, the notion of progress, egalitarianism, etc. I don't see such a deep dive (to the extent it is happening) elsewhere, but sure, even right and left are somewhat nebulous concepts...
Also, you are right that there is a blending of categories which makes for imperfections on the chart. I would argue that there is a general bent to the framing of one's arguments and the focus of one's writings, though. I felt remiss in not including you (I did think of it); I just felt uncertain with respect to placement, not on the metaphysical/cultural/politics side (you seem to be firmly on the metaphysical level), but rather how pessimistic or optimistic you are. If you think you're solidly pessimistic I will add you there.
LOL! I definitely don't want to be hoisting myself with my own petard, viz a viz definitions. I am much more curious to know how others see me, especially people whose work I find compelling.
My recent comment about this on "X" was something to the effect of optimism/pessimism is a false dichotomy, when all there is in reality is our ability to face reality with equanimity + how cheerful we can continue to be in our interactions with life. (Why should future prospects come under this rubrik, since, as Orson Welles said, we can only imagine a happy ending if we don't look far enough ahead.)
Thanks Jasun, yes, more than the hope for political or social changes, this world is a clownish Hellworld and first and foremost one really should put one's own affairs in order, i.e. to develop the mental and spiritual tools that will allow one to navigate this place with strength, equanimity and grace, by setting proper expectations and worldview adjustments. It's a big challenge and I don't think anyone, including and especially myself, has all the answers. I'm challenged by this reality daily.
I added you to the chart and referenced your blog underneath...
Also, your responses bring to mind this Cioran aphorism:
“All means and methods of knowing are valid: reasoning, intuition, disgust, enthusiasm, lamentation. A vision of the world propped on concepts is no more legitimate than another which proceeds from tears, arguments, or sighs— modalities equally probing and equally vain. I construct a form of universe; I believe in it, and it is the universe, which collapses nonetheless under the assault of another certitude or another doubt. The merest illiterate and Aristotle are equally irrefutable—and fragile. The absolute and decrepitude characterize the work ripened for years and the poem dashed off in a moment. Is there more truth in The Phenomenology of Mind than in Epipsychidion? Lightninglike inspiration, as well as laborious investigation, offers us definitive results—and ridiculous ones. Today I prefer this writer to that one; tomorrow will come the turn of a work I detested quite recently. The creations of the mind—and the principles which preside over them—follow the fate of our moods, of our age, of our fevers, and our disappointments. We call into question everything we once loved, and are always right and always wrong; for everything is valid—and nothing has any importance. I smile: a world is born; I frown: it vanishes, and another appears. No opinion, no system, no belief fails to be correct and at the same time absurd, depending on whether we adhere to it or detach ourselves from it.
We do not find more rigor in philosophy than in poetry, nor in the mind than in the heart; rigor exists only so long as we identify ourself with the principle or thing which we confront or endure; from outside, everything is arbitrary: reasons and sentiments. What we call truth is an error insufficiently experienced, not yet drained, but which will soon age, a new error, and which waits to compromise its novelty. Knowledge blooms and withers along with our feelings. And if we are in a position to scrutinize all truths, it is because we have been exhausted together—and because there is no more sap in us than in them. History is inconceivable outside of what disappoints. Which accounts for the desire to submit ourselves to melancholy, and to die of it….”
NEOLIBERAL FEUDALISM, do you know how valuable this post is? Finally, we get to know each other, and many more outstanding creators out there. Very, very well done, Sirs! Liked and followed. Best! T
Ah, now it shows up. Sometimes I press "Post" and there is a short delay and then... nothing. This could be a good sign in a way that Substack is seeing massive increase in traffic, which is always welcomed. Still, for individual user experience, the delay is quite annoying, haha. I am on the list and look forward to your next posts. Stay vigilant! All the Best! T
Insightful and helpful, thank you. I have been furiously collecting writers and commenters in hopes of one day doing some culling (I am developing favorites) and upgrading to paid subscriptions.
at least there is some lively discourse, and that is my favorite thing about it. It's the sort of thing i used to enjoy at the very best parties, but now can only find online, sadly. I do not agree completely with most people i read, but do respect a well though out point. And that is what i look for. A coherent mental map of the world in a sea of contradictions. Even as a kid the contradictions bothered me. I think a healthy, robust reality testing can only really happen in dialogue form.
Good points and a good graph. I'll also be checking out the stacks mentioned as I have time.
I've been pondering the quote since you originally put it up in your notes. It certainly is true that we live in interesting times. I know I'm noticing the difference, and glad for the breath of fresh air, even in the last few years on being able to speak a little more clearly and without as much push back. There's more openness to ideas without being burned at the stake.
More room for the dissidents to compare notes.
Which is interesting. I continue to find it hilarious to see what I have in common with communists, marxists, and pagans; as a traditional Catholic - that I never would have guessed. We still have issues, yes. But we all agree that the center will not hold, and need to look towards the sun rising on the morrow.
Robert Malone is not a dissident. He is the establishment. He is currently under contractual obligations to the DOD/USG, i.e. on their leash.
Yes, good point, he doesn't quite belong there.
Controlled opposition.
Yes, some of them are with the establishment, obviously. If they weren't with the establishment at least partically, they wouldn't be here and successful. The real dissidents are behind bars.
You and Mathew ever talk about this? I'd love to see that as a podcast.
Thanks for including me, though it won't matter in the end. ;)
Hey, it matters right now, and I'm sure we all appreciate you keeping an eye on the left flank brother!
<<"You’re also not going to generally find pessimists writing mainly on the level of politics because it’s too grim to write regularly “the dissident right is likely to continue to lose” without attaching metaphysical meaning to it.">>
This is spot on. The value of clownworld's insanity is it helps people overcome their reluctance to consider heterodox perspectives with an open mind and ignore their fear of social censure. When everything is going smoothly and you're comfortable and your side is winning and life is on a continual upwards trajectory, it's so much easier to just go with the flow and accept the conventional narrative, rather than heed that disquieting inner doubt. And once you start questioning things, the cycle feeds itself: after you recognize all the games are ultimately bullshit, you become less willing to "pretend" when others demand that you play them, and since we live in a memetic society where people and institutions reward performing the prescribed rituals and chanting the prescribed slogans, if you are unwilling to play along with these stupid games, it makes any kind of mainstream political success extremely difficult (if not impossible). And that leads to even more willingness to call "bullshit" on the conventional narratives, because you have such little hope of "winning" the games people play by pretending.
Thank you for the mention.
I am not particularly optimistic about empire or modern society, but I am very optimistic about the ability of individuals to improve their mental, physical and spiritual strength. If enough individuals make powerful change in themselves, society will follow. At the very least those who make such change can be there to assist and rebuild, as the collapse of the GAE empire progresses.
Thank you for including me, very interesting to see where I fall in relation to others. I had not considered it before. 🤔
Gotta be honest, this is pretty accurate.
I think we're fucked, but not completely fucked, and requires some overture of personal sacrifice to get unfucked. And talking politics is at best an amusing pass time, but not worth hours of writing and editing.
Interesting observation on points #6 and #7, which leads to the idea that the dissident audience has a focus gauged around political optimism. Good graph and summary points 😹
This explains why Rurik hates Simpleton so much lmao
Being an averagely narcissistic cognitive dissident, I am curious where I'd end up on this chart, if anywhere. Not regarding the optimistic-pessimist pole, since that's easy (my only qualification for optimism in this chart being that I still write articles at SS).
My interest and focus is metaphysical-psychological but the raw material I use is socio-political. But the line between "right" & "left" is a much more moving one and, surely, it doesn't really apply when it come to meta-psychological work? (Tho a political hammer might still try and nail down right-wing vs left-wing metaphysics.)
Cognitive dissidence entails a relentless Neti neti dismissal of every conclusion we (briefly) reach, on the way to Reality, big R, which obviously transcends all categories of positive or negative (the most fundamental dyad), and thus requires a constant holding of opposing possibilities in mind at the same time without letting either one capture us.
For the record, my form of informed "pessimism" (paranoid realism) doesn't (necessarily) include seeing the realm of Matter as fundamentally flawed, but the psychosocial lens of humancentric identities that we are currently using to evaluate the realm of Matter with, yeah, for sure, it is SNAFUBAR all down the line.
As I ended Big Mother with, true hope comes from accepting there is no hope. And seeing what comes through us then. Always a surprise! (more substack essays, eg).
Hi Jasun, great comment, thank you. I very much agree that higher level reality involves synergies of opposite beliefs and that "Cognitive dissidence entails a relentless Neti neti dismissal of every conclusion we (briefly) reach, on the way to Reality, big R, which obviously transcends all categories of positive or negative." The dissident right is of particular interest to me at this moment because it is attacking and deconstructing "every conclusions [society] reaches" with respect to democracy, secularism, history, the notion of progress, egalitarianism, etc. I don't see such a deep dive (to the extent it is happening) elsewhere, but sure, even right and left are somewhat nebulous concepts...
Also, you are right that there is a blending of categories which makes for imperfections on the chart. I would argue that there is a general bent to the framing of one's arguments and the focus of one's writings, though. I felt remiss in not including you (I did think of it); I just felt uncertain with respect to placement, not on the metaphysical/cultural/politics side (you seem to be firmly on the metaphysical level), but rather how pessimistic or optimistic you are. If you think you're solidly pessimistic I will add you there.
LOL! I definitely don't want to be hoisting myself with my own petard, viz a viz definitions. I am much more curious to know how others see me, especially people whose work I find compelling.
My recent comment about this on "X" was something to the effect of optimism/pessimism is a false dichotomy, when all there is in reality is our ability to face reality with equanimity + how cheerful we can continue to be in our interactions with life. (Why should future prospects come under this rubrik, since, as Orson Welles said, we can only imagine a happy ending if we don't look far enough ahead.)
Apparently I am either not cheerful enough enough in my prognoses of doom for some people, or my cheerfulness is even more galling to them. (Eg, this comment: https://childrenofjob.substack.com/p/jobcast-17-skullfucked-planet/comment/50916640 )
Thanks Jasun, yes, more than the hope for political or social changes, this world is a clownish Hellworld and first and foremost one really should put one's own affairs in order, i.e. to develop the mental and spiritual tools that will allow one to navigate this place with strength, equanimity and grace, by setting proper expectations and worldview adjustments. It's a big challenge and I don't think anyone, including and especially myself, has all the answers. I'm challenged by this reality daily.
I added you to the chart and referenced your blog underneath...
thanks! (I think, at least until this becomes a Gulag-dispatch list)
I am now doubly motivated to check out my neighbors in the cognitive doldrums - bleaksters need to stick together ;)
Also, your responses bring to mind this Cioran aphorism:
“All means and methods of knowing are valid: reasoning, intuition, disgust, enthusiasm, lamentation. A vision of the world propped on concepts is no more legitimate than another which proceeds from tears, arguments, or sighs— modalities equally probing and equally vain. I construct a form of universe; I believe in it, and it is the universe, which collapses nonetheless under the assault of another certitude or another doubt. The merest illiterate and Aristotle are equally irrefutable—and fragile. The absolute and decrepitude characterize the work ripened for years and the poem dashed off in a moment. Is there more truth in The Phenomenology of Mind than in Epipsychidion? Lightninglike inspiration, as well as laborious investigation, offers us definitive results—and ridiculous ones. Today I prefer this writer to that one; tomorrow will come the turn of a work I detested quite recently. The creations of the mind—and the principles which preside over them—follow the fate of our moods, of our age, of our fevers, and our disappointments. We call into question everything we once loved, and are always right and always wrong; for everything is valid—and nothing has any importance. I smile: a world is born; I frown: it vanishes, and another appears. No opinion, no system, no belief fails to be correct and at the same time absurd, depending on whether we adhere to it or detach ourselves from it.
We do not find more rigor in philosophy than in poetry, nor in the mind than in the heart; rigor exists only so long as we identify ourself with the principle or thing which we confront or endure; from outside, everything is arbitrary: reasons and sentiments. What we call truth is an error insufficiently experienced, not yet drained, but which will soon age, a new error, and which waits to compromise its novelty. Knowledge blooms and withers along with our feelings. And if we are in a position to scrutinize all truths, it is because we have been exhausted together—and because there is no more sap in us than in them. History is inconceivable outside of what disappoints. Which accounts for the desire to submit ourselves to melancholy, and to die of it….”
- A Short History of Decay, 146-147
to really be accurate, it (the chart) might have to be 3 dimensional at least.
Where would you put this comrade?
Cultural/political optimist close to Morgthorak - I will add you...
Based on the positioning of those in the chart and those with whom i most often agree, i would fall in the same category as you.
NEOLIBERAL FEUDALISM, do you know how valuable this post is? Finally, we get to know each other, and many more outstanding creators out there. Very, very well done, Sirs! Liked and followed. Best! T
Ah, now it shows up. Sometimes I press "Post" and there is a short delay and then... nothing. This could be a good sign in a way that Substack is seeing massive increase in traffic, which is always welcomed. Still, for individual user experience, the delay is quite annoying, haha. I am on the list and look forward to your next posts. Stay vigilant! All the Best! T
Insightful and helpful, thank you. I have been furiously collecting writers and commenters in hopes of one day doing some culling (I am developing favorites) and upgrading to paid subscriptions.
Would you be willing to share your list?
Yes, but I am currently buried nine-ways-to-Sunday so will hope to take a crack at it in the next 2-3 weeks.
This was super helpful! Thanks. Cool to see a lot of my favorite writers here, and a few I didn’t know about. I’ll check them out.
at least there is some lively discourse, and that is my favorite thing about it. It's the sort of thing i used to enjoy at the very best parties, but now can only find online, sadly. I do not agree completely with most people i read, but do respect a well though out point. And that is what i look for. A coherent mental map of the world in a sea of contradictions. Even as a kid the contradictions bothered me. I think a healthy, robust reality testing can only really happen in dialogue form.
Good points and a good graph. I'll also be checking out the stacks mentioned as I have time.
I've been pondering the quote since you originally put it up in your notes. It certainly is true that we live in interesting times. I know I'm noticing the difference, and glad for the breath of fresh air, even in the last few years on being able to speak a little more clearly and without as much push back. There's more openness to ideas without being burned at the stake.
More room for the dissidents to compare notes.
Which is interesting. I continue to find it hilarious to see what I have in common with communists, marxists, and pagans; as a traditional Catholic - that I never would have guessed. We still have issues, yes. But we all agree that the center will not hold, and need to look towards the sun rising on the morrow.
Excellent Work! This is a fascinating way of 2-dimensionally thinking about all these lovely writers. Thank You for the Analysis!
PS Where are all the women?
This has been a theme since I started podcasting, roughly one woman guest for every ten guys.
Women generally aren't at the forefront of things - they come later during a consolidation phase - and the dissident right movement is nascent...